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FeelinKorny
03-27-2014, 06:34 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/27/sports/ncaafootball/national-labor-relations-board-rules-northwestern-players-are-employees-and-can-unionize.html?_r=0

Do you consider college athletes to be employees? Do you think they should be paid?

Personally I do not view a college athlete to be an employee. In some perspective I can see why they would be consider, but I don't think they are. I would consider them to be more of a intern rather then an employee. As far as I know interns are not paid. They are there to gain the experience and prove that they are capable of gaining a job (being an employee) in the NFL.

However the athletes should be paid something. The NCAA gains millions/billions off of these players. The least they can do is pay the players for there likeness, endorsements or representation for the school/league. There is no reason not to pay a college athlete. They should make some money off of the NCAA while gaining experience. Not the NCAA making money off of the athletes.

Thoughts?

Retro
03-27-2014, 09:27 AM
Kill scholarships and pay them instead. However in the end because of Title IX the amount paid will end up being rather small because it will have to be spread across sports whether they generate money or not. It will also end up killing a number of sports (sorry to say, male sports) because the funding will not be able to cover them any longer.

mechatool
03-27-2014, 09:42 AM
The only way I think it would be fair is to have each college and the TV networks pay a percentage of the revenue they generate to a money pot. From this money pot, every Division 1 college player on scholarship (different sports have different payouts, Football being the most) is paid the same amount (on an quarterly biases). This will keep recruitment even (bigger programs can't offer more money to play for them). This makes the scholarship an important incentive.

Retro
03-27-2014, 09:42 AM
Best way for it to be handled would be to just allow scholarship athletes the ability to get a job like any other student.

The other factor is, having the schools pay them as "employee's" actually gives the schools and the NCAA more control over them. Most basketball players are one year and done. But under something like this, they could find themselves locked into a contract for 4 years making far less than what they would get from early entry in the NBA draft.

Retro
03-27-2014, 09:43 AM
From this money pot, every Division 1 college player on scholarship (different sports have different payouts, Football being the most) is paid the same amount.

Pretty sure this would run against Title IX, not entirely sure though.

Retro
03-27-2014, 09:58 AM
Student athletes should also be-careful of what they wish for here, as a scholarship will become a taxable benefit.

donhardeone
03-27-2014, 01:10 PM
Best way for it to be handled would be to just allow scholarship athletes the ability to get a job like any other student.


With what time though? I originally went to college on scholarship to run on their cross country team. However, my family has always been of the mindset that you pay your own way in life. As such, I was expected to have a job to pay for rent, car, et cetera. The money I got from the scholarship was not nearly enough to cover my needs. Cross country is not considered a time-consuming sport in the grand scheme of things, but I had very little time to have any semblance of a social life on top of playing, training, and school. Even if I did have the time, I had no money since I didn't have a job and my parents wouldn't assist me either. I ultimately chose to drop running and focus on school and get a job. I have both celebrated and regretted that decision since. I love where life took me from there, but there is always the regret of not sticking with my original passion.

The system as it stands leaves student athletes in a terrible spot. Scholarship player or walk-on is irrelevant IMO, as neither have time to get a real job that can help sustain a decent living while taking classes too. Unless the athlete has loans or a giving family, they are going to have a tough time. I see all these people bitching and moaning online about when a student athlete gets caught selling things they shouldn't, well what do you expect...we put kids who are still not at a high level of maturity in most cases into a situation that breeds desperation in several cases.

Retro
03-27-2014, 01:48 PM
With what time though? I originally went to college on scholarship to run on their cross country team. However, my family has always been of the mindset that you pay your own way in life. As such, I was expected to have a job to pay for rent, car, et cetera. The money I got from the scholarship was not nearly enough to cover my needs. Cross country is not considered a time-consuming sport in the grand scheme of things, but I had very little time to have any semblance of a social life on top of playing, training, and school. Even if I did have the time, I had no money since I didn't have a job and my parents wouldn't assist me either. I ultimately chose to drop running and focus on school and get a job. I have both celebrated and regretted that decision since. I love where life took me from there, but there is always the regret of not sticking with my original passion.

The system as it stands leaves student athletes in a terrible spot. Scholarship player or walk-on is irrelevant IMO, as neither have time to get a real job that can help sustain a decent living while taking classes too. Unless the athlete has loans or a giving family, they are going to have a tough time. I see all these people bitching and moaning online about when a student athlete gets caught selling things they shouldn't, well what do you expect...we put kids who are still not at a high level of maturity in most cases into a situation that breeds desperation in several cases.

Lets be honest about this, we are really talking about the top flight football and basketball players. How many classes do most of them actually attend. While I know the starting QB from Harvard is in class and carries a pretty tough class load, that's not the case for old Johnny Football. These guys all find the time to hit the clubs on weekly basis, they can get a job.

donhardeone
03-27-2014, 03:30 PM
Lets be honest about this, we are really talking about the top flight football and basketball players. How many classes do most of them actually attend. While I know the starting QB from Harvard is in class and carries a pretty tough class load, that's not the case for old Johnny Football. These guys all find the time to hit the clubs on weekly basis, they can get a job.

Oh you certainly have your fair share (specifically in football and basketball) who just mention something may be a good idea and get it. In all honesty I'd rather see those shitheads get a job and learn the world doesn't revolve around them, but they bring in too much money to the NCAA and universities. For the majority of student athletes out there though, being able to receive fair compensation would be a big thing. Granted, it isn't fair to pay a water polo player the same thing a starting football player makes given the discrepencies between sport-based income. Football and basketball players may bring in the most revenue, but they are not the majority of student athletes. The percentage of players who get the "special treatment" like the Johnny Footballs of the world are an even smaller percentage. Unfortunately people see asshats like him and think no college athlete deserves to be paid.

I see where you are coming from though, and there are no shortage of idiot players who barely (if ever) attend class and spend their nights brawling in bars downtown. Should we really let that smaller percentage (that IMO are a poor sampling of the average student athlete) dictate decisions on paying athletes. I'm for paying college athletes so long as the plan makes sense. Unfortunately, like everything else they touch I am sure the NCAA will find a way to boink it up royally.

Retro
03-27-2014, 04:32 PM
The problem is, it's the small number of football and basketball players who don't need to attend class that drive the money. 115,000 people are not buying a ticket on a Saturday and dropping another $150 for a jersey to watch someone play tennis. Without Football and Basketball there would be zero talk about athlete compensation outside of a scholarship.

If Title IX did not exist, it's a guarantee that college football and basketball players would already be getting paid a "salary" and get compensation for likeness rights.

Best option I see is a percentage of all revenue be held in escrow and will be paid out to student athletes who actually graduate. Don't stay in school and fail to graduate, then too bad so sad.

HardlyCapable13
03-27-2014, 10:08 PM
I'm the wrong person to be chiming in here, because I think college athletes are way over glorified. It's craziness IMO, and has a huge hand in the ruination of professional sports.

SouthtownSlayer
03-28-2014, 07:45 AM
I'm the wrong person to be chiming in here, because I think college athletes are way over glorified. It's craziness IMO, and has a huge hand in the ruination of professional sports.

I agree with you 100%.....looks like they should be focus more on the integrity of the University/professors/"student athletes" than paying them.

"Student athletes often seem to get an unfair advantage. No shocker there—if you went to a big sports college you might have taken classes with athletes who got "special tutoring" or "practice exams"—but this is allegedly a real paper written by a football player at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

And it apparently got an A-. WHAT?!

Mary Willingham, an advisor turned badass whistleblower, exposed what she claimed is a "system of corruption" at UNC that allowed athletes who were basically illiterate to get passing grades. "Athletes couldn't write a paper," she told ESPN (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=10671809). "They couldn't write a paragraph. They couldn't write a sentence."

She claims students would take "paper classes," which she said required no attendance and only one paper was graded per semester. (An athlete alumni quoted in the story called the classes "chill" and a way to "get an easy B.")


But she claims this paper got an A-. And it was a final paper. This is the accumulation of a semester's work and it's only 146 words long. The essay has been transcribed on many sites as such:

On the evening of December Rosa Parks decided that she was going to sit in the white people section on the bus in Montgomery, Alabama. During this time blacks had to give up there seats to whites when more whites got on the bus. Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat. Her and the bus driver began to talk and the conversation went like this. "Let me have those front seats" said the driver. She didn't get up and told the driver that she was tired of giving her seat to white people. "I'm going to have you arrested," said the driver. "You may do that," Rosa Parks responded. Two white policemen came in and Rosa Parks asked them "why do you all push us around?" The police officer replied and said "I don't know, but the law is the law and you're under arrest."

The author didn't even close the quotation marks on that last sentence.

"This is not even close to college work yet this athlete was awarded an A-minus," Willingham said in the interview.
And to think, if he had only known the difference between "there" and "their," he might have got an A."

HardlyCapable13
03-28-2014, 08:52 AM
Thanks for that write up Southtown, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

It's disgusting.

LandShark
03-28-2014, 11:30 AM
When you talk about paying college athletes, if you are saying they should be making millions, I say hell no to that. But if your talking about adding money to their scholarship to cash out weekly for walking around money, rent and gas for their Escaldes, then I can support that. There has to be limits, rules and expectations in order to get these benefits though.

Im going to stir the pot a little on this im sure, but I think that if your putting all the blame on universities for the disgusting way they allow top athletes to cruise through school, I think is unfair. As much if not more blame should be put on the NFL and NBA and other professional sports. The pro teams don't give a shit if they sign some dumbass that cant read or right, they are just going to give them millions to play for them. I think if your going to come down hard on colleges, you need to come down harder on the pros. The kids have zero interest in getting an education if they have the skills to make pro because they know as soon as they become eligible for the pros, they are millionares. That's where the disservice is. If the pro teams come out and said, that if you cant pass a basic knowledge test, then you cant be paid more than $30,000 per year. But if you can you can make up to $1mm, if you can and have a degree from a University, the amount is not limited.

run with it

Retro
03-28-2014, 12:14 PM
When you talk about paying college athletes, if you are saying they should be making millions, I say hell no to that. But if your talking about adding money to their scholarship to cash out weekly for walking around money, rent and gas for their Escaldes, then I can support that. There has to be limits, rules and expectations in order to get these benefits though.

Im going to stir the pot a little on this im sure, but I think that if your putting all the blame on universities for the disgusting way they allow top athletes to cruise through school, I think is unfair. As much if not more blame should be put on the NFL and NBA and other professional sports. The pro teams don't give a shit if they sign some dumbass that cant read or right, they are just going to give them millions to play for them. I think if your going to come down hard on colleges, you need to come down harder on the pros. The kids have zero interest in getting an education if they have the skills to make pro because they know as soon as they become eligible for the pros, they are millionares. That's where the disservice is. If the pro teams come out and said, that if you cant pass a basic knowledge test, then you cant be paid more than $30,000 per year. But if you can you can make up to $1mm, if you can and have a degree from a University, the amount is not limited.

run with it

Pro leagues have nothing to do with it. They are not responsible for keeping a kids head screwed on straight, that is on him and his parents. The only thing the pro teams are responsible for is finding and signing the best possible talent for their team and league. If a kid can not read or write than 100% of the blame goes on the kid, their parents, the school system that graduated him and the university that took him in simply because he has a canon arm or runs a sub 4:40. Pro leagues are not to blame at all. The university's are educational institutions that put their own integrity on the floor, kicked it, spat on it and threw it out the window in accepting a drooling illiterate moron into their place of so called "higher learning".

LandShark
03-28-2014, 12:34 PM
well then a player who can actually read and write and gets an honest degree shouldn't be allowed to get as big of a paycheck in the pros as a player that cant because the player with a degree can earn more money after football by using his degree.

Retro
03-28-2014, 12:45 PM
well then a player who can actually read and write and gets an honest degree shouldn't be allowed to get as big of a paycheck in the pros as a player that cant because the player with a degree can earn more money after football by using his degree.

The player who can read and write should earn everything he is valued at. Same with the player who can not. You get what people think you are worth.

The NFL, NBA or whatever league doesn't care nor should they whether or not someone can read or write. All they want and need is someone who can shoot 40% from behind the arc or block the outside rusher and save the franchise QB. They don't care and they shouldn't about what a potential player can do outside of the criteria they require for being a player on their team.

But a University? Lowering or even completely removing the academic acceptance standards because they need a new running back? That is a joke. The NFL & NBA could go out starting tomorrow and scout outside of college, if the University's decided to tighten up and use real student athlete's, and find those that don't qualify for school but have the talent to be a pro player.

LandShark
03-28-2014, 12:53 PM
ok, try this one...The universities cannot pay and should not pay the student athletes, because if the player of coach gets caught cheating, then its the university who loses money because of sanctions, not the coach or player who goes on to the pros and makes millions.

REMEC87
03-28-2014, 01:25 PM
Don't these athletes already get compensated with a free or subsidized education while the regular joes pay the premium?

Retro
03-28-2014, 01:29 PM
Don't these athletes already get compensated with a free or subsidized education while the regular joes pay the premium?

Yes, but a regular student can have a job to earn extra money while a scholarship athlete is not allowed to take money from any other source outside the scholarship and the stipend they receive which is pretty small.

A student on any other scholarship can still get a part-time job while someone on an athletic scholarship can not.

REMEC87
03-28-2014, 01:29 PM
And furthermore, if these athletes want to be paid, they can always go pro right out of high school. I always thought the choice was get a higher education or get the money?

Retro
03-28-2014, 01:30 PM
And furthermore, if these athletes want to be paid, they can always go pro right out of high school. I always thought the choice was get a higher education or get the money?

Very few have the ability to go pro right out of highschool (NBA) and to get into the NFL they must complete 3 years of college before becoming draft eligible.

REMEC87
03-28-2014, 01:36 PM
Yes, but a regular student can have a job to earn extra money while a scholarship athlete is not allowed to take money from any other source outside the scholarship and the stipend they receive which is pretty small.

A student on any other scholarship can still get a part-time job while someone on an athletic scholarship can not.

Those poor boys missing out on a crappy minimum wage job to get a $50,000-$100,000 education. Most other students work because they live in the real world and have bills to pay, not to mention school.

I do think athletes should be able to work crappy jobs too but it's the NCAA schools sins of the past that caused these ultra strict regulations in the first place.

LandShark
03-28-2014, 01:36 PM
this part I was serious about. "When you talk about paying college athletes, if you are saying they should be making millions, I say hell no to that. But if your talking about adding money to their scholarship to cash out weekly for walking around money, rent and gas for their Escaldes, then I can support that. There has to be limits, rules and expectations in order to get these benefits though.
"

Retro
03-28-2014, 01:40 PM
Those poor boys missing out on a crappy minimum wage job to get a $50,000-$100,000 education. Most other students work because they live in the real world and have bills to pay, not to mention school.

I do think athletes should be able to work crappy jobs too but it's the NCAA schools sins of the past that caused these ultra strict regulations in the first place.

Yup those poor boys whose ability generates millions for their schools each year that benefit the entire school, not just the athletic department. Yet most can not even go to a movie because they don't have the money and if they allow someone to pay for them they could have their entire program put on suspension.

REMEC87
03-28-2014, 01:42 PM
Very few have the ability to go pro right out of highschool (NBA) and to get into the NFL they must complete 3 years of college before becoming draft eligible.

Well I think they should probably change those rules then(NFL) if money is an athletes only concern. If you factor in the player development costs universities have to incur along with the free education they are providing I think the athletes have it pretty good.

Retro
03-28-2014, 01:48 PM
Well I think they should probably change those rules then(NFL) if money is an athletes only concern. If you factor in the player development costs universities have to incur along with the free education they are providing I think the athletes have it pretty good.

Excluding everything in merchandising and just going by game day tickets. Average price for a ticket to go Ohio State in 2013 - $246 per ticket with a current capacity of 102,329 for each home game of which there are 8.

The university's make out far better. Start adding merchandise, game day concessions, never mind Conference share of TV deals plus local and regional TV.

REMEC87
03-28-2014, 01:54 PM
Yup those poor boys whose ability generates millions for their schools each year that benefit the entire school, not just the athletic department. Yet most can not even go to a movie because they don't have the money and if they allow someone to pay for them they could have their entire program put on suspension.

Pocket money I agree with; the ability to work part time jobs I agree with.

The problem is the money generated, indeed. It has blurred the line between education and sports. It's also created this sense of entitlement in everyone involved.

I also think it's way too far gone to actually implement any realistic improvements for athletes other than to paying them, despite what our moral compasses tell us. It's definitely a tough subject.

Retro
03-28-2014, 02:03 PM
That's the problem. On the surface it's very easy to say "well they get a free education". But then you see a head coach making $8 Million a year. A school pulling in $20 Million in gate receipts alone each game (and lets not forget all the concerts that take place in a stadium that only exists because of the player). Massive TV contracts with ESPN and others in the Billions.

Begins to look more and more like the $100K scholarship amount is really peanuts.

LandShark
03-28-2014, 02:05 PM
2.1 billion spent on d1 basketball scholorships

Retro
03-28-2014, 02:17 PM
2.1 billion spent on d1 basketball scholorships

CBS/NCAA 14 year $11 Billion deal for the NCAA tournament alone.

LandShark
03-28-2014, 02:21 PM
65% goes into athletic fund

REMEC87
03-28-2014, 03:37 PM
I think the answer is clear. We must all boycott watching college sports. Then it will go back to just the education of our youth(said the old man) like it should be.

Problem solved :)

mechatool
03-28-2014, 05:16 PM
Quote from http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2013/12/18/college-footballs-most-valuable-teams-2013-texas-longhorns-cant-be-stopped/


Texas has been college football’s most valuable team since 2009, when it usurped Notre Dame’s top spot with a value of $119 million. The team’s unprecedented value is built on the back of the nation’s most dedicated fan base, which has helped Texas lead all schools in merchandise sales, secure the most lucrative school-specific TV deal and become the only college football team in history to cross $100 million in revenue, which the Longhorns have done for the last two seasons.

Last year Texas had income of $109 million; no other team made more than $90 million. The biggest source of revenue was ticket sales, which contributed $34.5 million last season, an increase of more than $2 million from the previous year. Texas football also collected $30 million from contributions and another $15 million from Big 12 and NCAA distributions.

Retro
06-27-2014, 11:19 AM
For example, take star Oregon (http://www.si.com/college-football/team/oregon-ducks) quarterback Marcus Mariota (http://www.si.com/college-football/player/marcus-mariota), who recently told CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/dennis-dodd/24598409/return-of-pac-12-qb-mariota-mannion-carry-oregon-oregon-state-too): “I just feel blessed” to play college football. “They're talking about paying college athletes,” Mariota said. “Looking behind me, these facilities. The resources we get around here. We'll never get this much help in our entire life."


Interesting take from a current player in a major program and conference.

LandShark
06-27-2014, 02:40 PM
I cant figure out how all college athletes cant see it that way.