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View Full Version : R6 - Think I'm done



Retro
09-20-2017, 12:21 PM
First, I love R6. While Siege is not my favourite game in the R6 series, I really do like it.

But Ubisoft is killing it. The constant pandering to Pro-league players that affect everyone, is not good. The constant updates and patches are killing gameplay. For whatever reason, each time they try to "fix" something, they end up either breaking other aspects of the game or making the original problem worse than it was.

The season 3 update completely screwed up hit detection.
https://twitter.com/bakboy2012/status/909822633574850560

The gif in the Twitter mention above has happened to me over and over since the update. Some have said it's the players ping. While that could be true, most matches for me fall somewhere between 60 and 90 ping and it happens to me all the time.

I can take a loss. I can take someone actually beating me. But when shit like that is the reason? Nope. This game has lost all it's fun value because of this type of garbage.

Add in the glitches where people fall through the map. Ubisoft has stated they "Know about the issue and are investigating". Investigating what? It's been there since the beginning, how the hell have you not figured it out yet???

It angers me as this game has brought more MP's back together over both Xbox and Playstation and to see it getting screwed up because of idiotic decision making by the devs is frustrating.

/rant

tthfry
09-20-2017, 02:06 PM
We've had our little discussion over in Discord and I understand your frustration with the game.

I for one am really glad that they even bother trying to fix stuff, especially considering how they keep getting a beating from the community. Yes, the joke is on Ubi, their server performances are infamous. Their support ist utterly overstrained practically at all times. And for the sake of it, their attempts at fixing stuff have always had a tendency for a desperate laugh. Their older titles seldomly got fixed after the obligatory day 1 patch though. And I'll take frantic attempts at fixing issues over letting a good game bleed out by its bugs any time. I have a naive feeling that they are on a good path to finding their way of tackling things successfully.

Have I ever told you the definition of "crazy?"

I agree that the constant focus on what's best for the 2% elite sucks big time for the average Joe. It keeps making you shake your head in disbelieve.

I had a point when I started writing this but my wife playing crazy russian pronounciations on Google Translate put me off somehow.

TL;DR
I am pro bug fixing. Do it! Things break at the back when you fix the front. Just make sure that you keep fixing back and front in turns, or else shit will go way sideways. And we don't like it when it does that, do we?

Retro
09-20-2017, 03:20 PM
I'm pro bug fix. But more and more I'm seeing game get killed by over-patching. NBA 2K17 last years stands out to me. A game that launched to universal praise, played really well. It had some minor bugs, but nothing too bad. But they also wanted to appeal to the e-sports crowd, who whined bitched and moaned about the difficulty being too much. So they began patching and updating. By December the game was broken, as in if you could even load the game in under 30 minutes, you were lucky. The gameplay went to crap. They finally got around to fixing it again ...a month before 2K18 launched.

Supporting and fixing a game is great. But significantly altering the core game to appease what is an insignificant number in their player base (especially when the pro players pay absolutely nothing for the game and it's content) is ludicrous. The testing they do for updates, is a joke. The very fact that you know about Problem A and build an update to fix it, then release it and not only is Problem A not fixed, but now you have B,C,D.... and so on.

The idea's they have and their intentions for the updates may be fantastic and mean well, but the execution for them is garbage. And that is the problem.

Over the last few months, I've been on playing this game nearly 4 hours each day minimum. I was literally beginning my evening playing with east coast and European MP's and finishing with west coast MP's. The difference in what the update did, is very noticeable to me. And those I play with have all posted clips of some crazy BS that I've never seen in this game before.

HeadsWilSned
09-21-2017, 02:12 AM
Over the last few months, I've been on playing this game nearly 4 hours each day minimum. I was literally beginning my evening playing with east coast and European MP's and finishing with west coast MP's. The difference in what the update did, is very noticeable to me. And those I play with have all posted clips of some crazy BS that I've never seen in this game before.

Likewise, from the start of September, since I've had the game from release, I've been on it almost every night. More than ever. RNG when concerning tactical shooters in my mind, has no place. So removing the RNG from the gunplay I'm pro (especially since they practically admit that the gunplay has been broken, from the launch) Problem with Ubi as far as I can tell, is that they're way too ambitious, with the content that they push not only on here but their other titles (yes I'm looking at you For Honor) they are creating this mine field of issues. Rebalancing, bugs etc.

Now when it comes to "PRO" and "ESL" or "MLG" or whatever it's called, it's money. We play games for fun and entertainment, and publishers and developers run businesses. I don't have to know the figures, and I'm sure it's transparent somewhere for one to go look it up if they felt inclined, it shouldn't come as a shock when you realise just how much "stupid" money is in e-sports.

We like to think as the community the devs/publishers look to us, since we're the guys that buy it, support it etc. But in reality, they go where the money is, that's they they listen to the 2% and build this around the 2%. Before e-sports the community is nothing other than guinea pigs. I mean you buy the title on release, and many more buy into the hype (drops head in shame) and pre-oreders games at AAA prices. How many purchases and you're dev/publishing costs are covered?

Go back to For Honor, P2P for saving on not having dedicated servers. This on a AAA title. (Think they have servers now? dunno haven't been on there for so long)

My point is that this world is so greedy, potentially great things end up being garbage over it. My biggest argument with any online title has and probably will always be the server/lag issue. Out of greed you'll promote your product in a country/region you never planned on supporting. And because of your specific server/meta setup, when the community start lashing out over the horror of playing with us high-pingers (and I assure you it has nothing to do with my quality of internet) they follow up with meta that completely *insert profanity* us over (DICE and recent BF latency update - where I cannot play with the friends I've made playing their game, one I've supported over the franchise, now I'm forced to play in my region (or it's unplayable) and because of the new addition to servers in my region, I'm forced to play BF the CoD edition, since the only populated game modes you can find are TDM, no conquest... what's BF without conquest

Now this isn't Heads' pitty party, I don't mean to hijack your rant. I'm in support of it. Just venting myself.

Oh P.S. with notes on the re-inforcement, seems like lag and ping will be addressed in Nov - watch how they end my playing this with MPs as well.

Retro
09-21-2017, 02:28 AM
Now when it comes to "PRO" and "ESL" or "MLG" or whatever it's called, it's money. We play games for fun and entertainment, and publishers and developers run businesses. I don't have to know the figures, and I'm sure it's transparent somewhere for one to go look it up if they felt inclined, it shouldn't come as a shock when you realise just how much "stupid" money is in e-sports.


It's not hard to find. Based on prize payouts and the cost involved to sponsor and run events (also paying the game casters) along with other sponsors and partners like MS, Sony, Twitch, ESL, etc. taking their cuts, it's more than likely they don't actually make money from esports, or it's a small number. The benefit for them is more advertising and keeping the game relevant and gamer's minds. Keep that game in the top 20 of games on Twitch. The longer it stays there the more money the player base continues to pump into it.

So while pro players take home a nice cheque, I doubt Ubisoft is. Their payoff is not so direct.

Here are the largest Prize Pools for R6.





Tournament Name
Prize Money


1.
Pro League Year 2 Season 1: Finals (https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/23300-pro-league-year-2-season-1-finals)
$167,000.00


2.
Pro League Year 2 Season 2: Finals (https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/24402-pro-league-year-2-season-2-finals)
$167,000.00


3.
Six Invitational (PC) (https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/22028-six-invitational-pc)
$100,000.00


4.
Six Invitational (Xbox One) (https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/22044-six-invitational-xbox-one)
$100,000.00


5.
Rainbow Six Pro League S3 (XBOX) (https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/22067-rainbow-six-pro-league-s3-xbox)
$62,500.00


6.
Coupe de France R6S (https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/22066-coupe-de-france-r6s)
$21,573.01


7.
Brasileirão Rainbow Six 2017 - Season 1 (https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/24627-brasileir-o-rainbow-six-2017-season-1)
$15,904.19


8.
» (https://www.esportsearnings.com/events/4955-nordic-championship-2017-summer) Nordic Championship 2017 Summer - Rainbow Six (https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/24089-nordic-championship-2017-summer-rainbow-six)
$12,268.61


9.
Coupe de France R6S (https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/22065-coupe-de-france-r6s)
$10,786.50


10.
ANZ Invitational (https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/24302-anz-invitational)
$3,950.00


11.
» (https://www.esportsearnings.com/events/4239-esl-masters-spain-2016-barcelona) ESL Masters Spain 2016 - Barcelona (R6 Siege) (https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/20338-esl-masters-spain-2016-barcelona-r6-siege)
$3,264.91


12.
» (https://www.esportsearnings.com/events/4800-playing-ducks-homemasters) Playing Ducks HomeMasters #1 - Final (https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/23289-playing-ducks-homemasters-1-final)
$2,134.80


13.
ESL Go4R6 (PC) #41 Europe (https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/20610-esl-go4r6-pc-41-europe)
$108.55


14.
ESL Go4R6 (PC) #42 Europe (https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/20638-esl-go4r6-pc-42-europe)
$106.07


15.
» (https://www.esportsearnings.com/events/4568-esl-go4r6-pc-europe) ESL Go4R6 (PC) #43 Europe (https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/22051-esl-go4r6-pc-43-europe)
$105.93


16.
ESL Go4R6 (One) #48 North America (https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/21337-esl-go4r6-one-48-north-america)
$100.00


17.
ESL Go4R6 (PC) #41 North America (https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/20611-esl-go4r6-pc-41-north-america)
$100.00


18.
ESL Go4R6 (PC) #42 North America (https://www.esportsearnings.com/tournaments/20639-esl-go4r6-pc-42-north-america)
$100.00

HeadsWilSned
09-21-2017, 02:38 AM
...keeping the game relevant and gamer's minds. Keep that game in the top 20 of games on Twitch. The longer it stays there the more money the player base continues to pump into it.

So while pro players take home a nice cheque, I doubt Ubisoft is. Their payoff is not so direct.

Yeah I didn't mean directly walking off with a paycheque. It's keeping it relevant. Business, keep the product profitable for longer. Least amount of development cost.

Without e-sports what is a AAA lifespan now (asside from servers running for decades and some die-hards still at it) it's 2 years (or around there I think) for publishers and development stops. Cow is dry. Support of the game vs. new sales start hitting the "not worth it" mark.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/1544719/rainbow-six-siege-has-quietly-become-a-huge-hit

Major Stains
09-21-2017, 03:18 AM
And if you scroll right down the table...



99.
Team MP R6 Beer'n'Brawl
Priceless

DeadChaos
09-21-2017, 03:19 AM
Found the word I was looking for in an earlier post in that twitter link. Rubber banding! Big problem for me since BO. More concerning is Ubi now wants to "fix" recoil.......Since they removed the red screen from defenders exiting buildings the problem has just become worst. Lets take the video of MP's falling off the roof and then being downed when hitting the ground......now when a defender jumps out a window from the same height he takes very little damage, if any, and kills you before you even know he is out there.

I agree, these patches are killing the game. This is why I praise Respawn even more, they have a great game, great balance, no issues that I have encountered with patches.

HeadsWilSned
09-21-2017, 04:28 AM
this is why i praise respawn even more, they have a great game, great balance, no issues that i have encountered with patches.

this!

Gadnos316
09-21-2017, 10:36 AM
Respawn for life!!

Retro
09-21-2017, 10:45 AM
I agree, these patches are killing the game. This is why I praise Respawn even more, they have a great game, great balance, no issues that I have encountered with patches.

So you're really praising ....EA.

Titanfall 2 is decent, they do a good job. Just wasn't enough of a change over the first TF which I got burnt out on. Probably why TF2 is more popular on PS4, everyone on Xbox got enough in the first game.

DeadChaos
09-21-2017, 11:58 AM
Moving into 7th generation and still going strong.