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oscarthegrouch71
07-28-2010, 03:21 AM
Found this today...... new content unlocked on disk..... White Pass Rush and Nelson Bay Conquest......

http://planetbattlefield.gamespy.com/fu ... ?id=163073 (http://planetbattlefield.gamespy.com/fullstory.php?id=163073)

theczech99
07-28-2010, 07:04 AM
Hopefully AT&T has my internet repaired by the time I get home today so I can try out the new rush map. Itís been down since Monday!!!

ustolemygmrtag
07-28-2010, 07:58 AM
Looks good, I always wanted to try white pass on rush. Tonight, i am kicking sniperella off the xbox.

dinsdale1978
07-28-2010, 08:59 AM
Ohh great more MCOMMs to mine. I'm going to have to get out my Ushanka and my Russian boots to stay warm on these frosty maps.

sniperella
07-28-2010, 09:10 AM
Looks good, I always wanted to try white pass on rush. Tonight, i am kicking sniperella off the xbox.


Think again, darling! So were you just not going to tell me about the new map, so you could try it out first or what??? GRRR! :cuss: ;)

ustolemygmrtag
07-28-2010, 09:24 AM
:D :-" :-*

Looks good, I always wanted to try white pass on rush. Tonight, i am kicking sniperella off the xbox.


Think again, darling! So were you just not going to tell me about the new map, so you could try it out first or what??? GRRR! :cuss: ;)
you have all day to play it befor i get home. it should be in the que now. :)~ :))

oscarthegrouch71
07-28-2010, 09:26 AM
Link below is a pretty comprehensive critique of the two new maps....... not overly positive..... but shall give them a go and make my own mind up anyway.....

http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/battlefield-bad-company-2-ng/1260820-great-alice-silence-presents-review-map-pack-5-a.html

TrojanTeacher
07-28-2010, 10:45 AM
White Pass Rush! Oh yes! Always liked that day snow map.

ustolemygmrtag
07-28-2010, 10:53 AM
Link below is a pretty comprehensive critique of the two new maps....... not overly positive..... but shall give them a go and make my own mind up anyway.....

http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/battlefield-bad-company-2-ng/1260820-great-alice-silence-presents-review-map-pack-5-a.html
Those were some very distressing reviews. I seem to thing they are dead on though. This is a real downer for me. I was really ezcited, until read those reviews. Oh well, i guess Dice is too busy with MOH, to give proper justice to BFBC2.

SlapLaB
07-28-2010, 11:08 AM
Yeah they first gave us Laguna Presa rush which was awesome, and then it went downhill...

theczech99
07-28-2010, 11:30 AM
I guess now we have Panama Canal, Laguna Alta rush and Valparaiso, Isla Inocentes conquest to look forward to until Vietnam is released. Dice did post on FB a few months ago asking for input on which maps to add from BC1.

imported_BigDaddyPine
07-28-2010, 12:17 PM
If i understand this right, the maps in the map packs were already built and on the disc when we bought them, and dice is just unlocking stuff over time. If that is the case then while these may be disappointing modifications for some players, perhaps they just wanted to release their best 'new maps' first and map pack 5 is just the fat kids getting picked last. (i have not played them and frankly, am still excited to check them out)

For example: The whole map for Laguna Presa was designed and on the disc with only conquest mode unlocked... so when they added the map pack that included Laguna Presa's rush mode and all of the sudden there was 70% more terrain available in that map... it is not because they made a ton more content... but because they only unveiled the small conquest area first.

So, the amount of area that each of these maps contain was preset when they pressed the discs. It seems that wishing for new free mappacks that have totally new maps/locations seems a little unrealistic.

Or am I not understanding how the map pack system works in this case?

dinsdale1978
07-28-2010, 12:34 PM
If i understand this right, the maps in the map packs were already built and on the disc when we bought them, and dice is just unlocking stuff over time. If that is the case then while these may be disappointing modifications for some players, perhaps they just wanted to release their best 'new maps' first and map pack 5 is just the fat kids getting picked last. (i have not played them and frankly, am still excited to check them out)

For example: The whole map for Laguna Presa was designed and on the disc with only conquest mode unlocked... so when they added the map pack that included Laguna Presa's rush mode and all of the sudden there was 70% more terrain available in that map... it is not because they made a ton more content... but because they only unveiled the small conquest area first.

So, the amount of area that each of these maps contain was preset when they pressed the discs. It seems that wishing for new free mappacks that have totally new maps/locations seems a little unrealistic.

Or am I not understanding how the map pack system works in this case?

Well it depends on what developer you are talking about. Some developers will charge you exorbitent amounts of money for recycled maps from other versions of the game. What DICE did, to me, is borderline shifty. I appreciate that they are unlocking these maps over time to keep parts of the game fresh. However; Something new would be nice, especially for the VIP or Gun Club members they keep promising big things for, as if we are destined to get something grand.

Frankly, I am not holding my breath for anything new before the Vietnam expansion as they can't even fix the bronze weapon insignia glitch.

Hey at least it's free and keeps us playing.

sniperella
07-28-2010, 12:54 PM
Okay, played White Pass Rush, and frankly, it is too easy! I did put Hardcore mode off to try it out and see where things are located. I am going to try to put this as spoiler text so that way those of you that want to experience the map first, then read about, you won't know what is coming!! [spoiler:3e0m8z39]As attacker, the first set of MCOMM's was the hardest as they are both in the same building. The last two sets are easy and took only a few minutes to get both sets by just dropping mortars. Defending, as long as you can hold the first two, you have a shot at winning, but lose those and the game is pretty much over.[/spoiler:3e0m8z39] ;)

Borlaxx
07-28-2010, 01:36 PM
Well it depends on what developer you are talking about. Some developers will charge you exorbitent amounts of money for recycled maps from other versions of the game.
Assuming you mean MW2, and if I am wrong, my bad.

In MW2 the maps packs are $15 for 5 maps (3 new and 2 from the first MW). While not free, and not all new (although new to me since I hardly played MW1), they are new maps that were not included on the game disc to begin with (I have read posts saying they were on the disc, but I don't believe it since I actually had to download files to get the new maps and the only thing saying they are not new are posts from hackers who are more than likely full of shit). So, although I am paying $15 per map pack (which have completely been worth it IMO), I am actually getting new content and not just existing maps opened up for different game modes, of which there are a lot of different modes in MW2.

I could easily be wrong, but it seems to be that all DICE and EA is doing is punishing people who buy the game used while supplying no real free content to those who buy it new. If you buy the game new, you get VIP status, which means as they unlock different modes for maps that you already have (and that more than likely could have been playable on all modes from the day the game was released) you do not have to pay anything to play new modes on old maps. However, if you were unlucky enough to buy the game used, like many people do, then you have to pay extra to get VIP status and play these modes on old maps as they are unlocked. I understand why they would do that, because they see 0% of the money from used game sales, but it still seems like they are punishing the gamer in the name of profit.

It would be one think if getting VIP status from buying the game new, or paying for it if you got the game used, would get you access to actual "new" maps and content, but so far it does not appear to be that way. Correct me if I am wrong (and I know someone will) buy the only real DLC (the co-op missions) that has been released so far wasn't free for VIP gamers, so it seems to me at least that the only stuff you get from VIP is stuff that should have been available from day one and that anything that is actually new will still carry a cost even for VIP gamers. That to me is shady. I feel bad for anyone who actually paid for VIP status just so they could play all the modes on all the maps that should have been available from day one just to realize they aren't actually getting anything "new."

I have read a lot of comments, here and on other sites, complaining about the cost of the MW2 map packs. While saying they are too expensive is a valid argument, at least you are paying for actually new content, and at least you don't have to get special VIP access (by buying the game new or paying extra if you got is used) just to play all the maps that were on the disc on all the modes that are included in the game.

My hope for all you BC2 players is that when they actually release new maps they are free for VIP members. Otherwise BC2 is no better than MW2 in this regard, especially if they package in old maps from BC1 and make you pay to play those, which seems to be a big complaint about the MW1 maps in the MW2 map packs.

Rant over.

dinsdale1978
07-28-2010, 02:06 PM
[

Rant over.

Well, I was aluding to MW2, but they aren't the only ones who charge for add on content. I am with you that the BC2 track record has been less than friendly to their so called VIP's. Their project $10 gambit may be eye opening but will probably just make gamers angry.

I know that the MW2 map packs are much more unique than the BC2 ones, but that pricepoint is just a bit steep in my opinion. Granted, I bought DLC2.

The realy kicker for me at the moment was Onslaught. I bought it and played it a few times. I would have rather paid for customized outfits, vehicles, or guns. See -> Battlefield Heroes.

Retro
07-28-2010, 03:45 PM
I'd rather have disc content unlocked for free than pay for it like MW2. I know you don't believe it to be true Borlax, but I've seen too much pointing to those maps being on the disc to dismiss it.

What I have heard is that you are actually downloading the MW1 maps and unlocking the "new" maps. Activision has been very busy taking videos off the web that have shown people hacking the disc. I know I had posted one here and I'm pretty sure the source has been taken away.

Personally I have no real complaints about how BC2 has done it. Every few months I get something new, whether its on the disc or not. I also don't blame the game company's for charging people who buy the game used, I really see no problem in that. I have no problem with used games as I buy them all the time. But from the developers stand point, they've come up with a pretty good solution to counteract lost revenue. Why should Gamestop make all the money off of them?

Beano
07-28-2010, 03:53 PM
Just finished a couple games on white pass rush. First impressions are that it is the hardest map to defend by far. The action comes fast and furious. Almost every mcomm you are able to knock down a building to take it. The only possible chance I've seen is to push ahead toward the attackers spawn and stop them there. Against competent competition this may prove to be very difficult.

A good setup to run as attackers I've seen is assault medic and engineerX2. Just as on the conquest white pass space is very limited and you have to move.

I did enjoy the Nelson bay conquest map however. Lots of space to move/flank. Looking forward to playing with some mps on these.

CELockwood
07-28-2010, 04:03 PM
I have no experience with MW, but two things that I don't like about the bc2 approach:

1) This VIP is clearly a shot at the resale market and I don't like them taking aim at used games this way. Sure GameStop makes a lot of money, but that's not a crime and I'm not a Gamestop customer anyway. I can get my games from ebay, friends, etc. Sure they get no money from those transactions, but why should they? I'm not saying they don't have a right to do it, I just don't like it. It's equivalent to Random House getting $5 if I sell my copy of the Da Vinci Code, though we are probably looking at worse treatment with digital books and downloaded games. You can't really sell your copy of Castle Crashers.

2) It's worse, imo, because they don't just release what's on the disc to new customers immediately, but drag it out. If the content is available, and you're giving it out to new game purchasers, just do it and stop dribbling it out to me trying to make it appear that I'm getting something for the extra few bucks I paid for the new copy that likely would have been included from the start if not for the rise of used games. I know that some may feel this keeps the game fresh, but I'd just as soon the content as soon as it's available.

My $0.02

REMEC87
07-28-2010, 04:14 PM
[

Rant over.

Well, I was aluding to MW2, but they aren't the only ones who charge for add on content. I am with you that the BC2 track record has been less than friendly to their so called VIP's. Their project $10 gambit may be eye opening but will probably just make gamers angry.

I know that the MW2 map packs are much more unique than the BC2 ones, but that pricepoint is just a bit steep in my opinion. Granted, I bought DLC2.

The realy kicker for me at the moment was Onslaught. I bought it and played it a few times. I would have rather paid for customized outfits, vehicles, or guns. See -> Battlefield Heroes.


The fact is that you really can't please everybody. I don't think there is a solution that would make everybody happy unless all the DLCs were free and even then you would still get complaining. I personally hate when they "unlock" crap that was already on the disc...I believe a game should stand on its own merits and all disc content should be available from the beginning. And after that, companies can offer traditional downloadable content for free( to encourage disc sales) or for a fee if it is a runaway hit. Afterall, money makes the gaming world move forward and if we ultimately didn't want all this extra garbage we might all be outside playing street hockey or whatever it is you wacky americans play :P

Borlaxx - Did BC2 hurt you as a kid? Forgiveness is the first step.... =)) 8-}

Retro
07-28-2010, 04:28 PM
"Sure they get no money from those transactions, but why should they?"

Ummm, they spent millions developing, producing, marketing and distributing the game? If I know 10 people are buying my product and I'm only recieve money from 6, why should I not try to find a way to collect money from the other 4?

Yes MW2 was a huge success and money is not an issue. And maybe its the same for BC2 as well. But not every game sells huge numbers. And it's not about the game being bad or good, it's about the amount of choice people have right now.

I buy used games. But at the same time if company's don't find ways to have people buy the game new and get that money, a lot of these company's will go belly up. Just look at the history of video games and the shear number of developers that go under yet they had great games.

I was going to wait until BC2 came out used, they changed my mind with the VIP. And with the amount of time this game has givin me, I say it was money well spent. If I bought the game used, there is no way I would have paid the extra amount. I probably would have finished the SP mode and then traded the game in.

It's not a crime what Gamestop does. But they are biting the hand that feed them. They are not like a regular retail store. They only make money on accessories and used games. An Xbox 360 that sells for $299 has a cost of $299. Games that sell new for $59.99 have a cost between $58.99 & $62.99. But unlike other retailers they don't have a other products, they count on developers. Company's like EA have tried in the past to set up agreements with stores like GameStop, but GameStop was greedy and did want to deal. They had the power at that time. But tech has changed and the developers now have the power. In 5 years time it is very likely company's like GameStop will be gone. So no it's not a crime what they are doing, but they have screwed themselves.

With online play becoming so important to gamers, things like EA's online pass will make people either buy the game new or not bother to buy it at all. Where as before, a smaller group would buy it new and others would buy it used.

Retro
07-28-2010, 04:29 PM
Borlaxx - Did BC2 hurt you as a kid? Forgiveness is the first step.... =)) 8-}


He got sick of his tags being stolen over and over! :D

ustolemygmrtag
07-28-2010, 04:45 PM
I pesonally do not like the $15 price point for the VIP. I see why they did it, but its $10 too much in my opinion. In its current form.

On the disk content should all be unlocked as soon as you pop the disk in. If they wanted to do a vip thing, they should have made new maps and never had the vip come with the disks. At this point, I would settle for some recycled content from the 1st BC game. At least then it would feel new, not just another map thrown together to keep the savages happy.

Retro
07-28-2010, 05:22 PM
I pesonally do not like the $15 price point for the VIP. I see why they did it, but its $10 too much in my opinion.
$5 won't discourage anyone from buying the game used. If it had only been $5 I never would have bought the game until around now.

ustolemygmrtag
07-28-2010, 05:57 PM
LOL, I am not being mean when I say this Retro, but so what. There are always going to be people buying and selling games used. ;) They will never discourage me from purchasing a used game, if that is what I intend to do. I personally hate that games have become overpriced. :(( :(( $65 for a new game is just stupid. :-w Especially if they plan on releasing 3 Expansions and charging $15 apiece for them. :-w And to top it all off, they have the content made before the game releases, and put it on the disk. :-o Only to open it up at a later date, and call it an expansion. X( Can anyone say Pinocchio? :^o

Retro
07-28-2010, 06:41 PM
LOL, I am not being mean when I say this Retro, but so what. There are always going to be people buying and selling games used. ;) They will never discourage me from purchasing a used game, if that is what I intend to do. I personally hate that games have become overpriced. :(( :(( $65 for a new game is just stupid. :-w Especially if they plan on releasing 3 Expansions and charging $15 apiece for them. :-w And to top it all off, they have the content made before the game releases, and put it on the disk. :-o Only to open it up at a later date, and call it an expansion. X( Can anyone say Pinocchio? :^o
Well I remember paying between $70 & $80 for those old SNES and Genesis games. Without even taking inflation into account, games today are cheaper.

sniperella
07-28-2010, 06:50 PM
Video games have always been expensive! I love buying used games, and if the game is worth the extra money to have VIP access, then it is no big deal. Many games I have purchased used, I was glad that I didn't pay full price! I definitely remember paying high prices for the Sega Genesis games, all of which I still have, and my kids now play them. They are very kid friendly and easy for them to play as the controls are much simpler! I suppose if they say I have to pay even more to get new BFBC stuff, I probably will, but I really like the game. I don't think I would if the game was disappointing overall like Red Dead was to me. ;)

CELockwood
07-28-2010, 07:34 PM
"Sure they get no money from those transactions, but why should they?"

Ummm, they spent millions developing, producing, marketing and distributing the game? If I know 10 people are buying my product and I'm only recieve money from 6, why should I not try to find a way to collect money from the other 4?



So because they spent a lot on the development, they should get money from the sale of the product every time it changes hands after the first sale? Doesn't happen with books, cars, golf clubs, etc. I really dislike the effort to profit after the first sale. Again, nothing stopping them. Not illegal or even unethical, but I don't like it.

I'm not a fan of GameStop. For the most part, I think they're a rip off. The difference in what they pay/sell games for doesn't do anything for me; I'd rather buy new most of the time than buy from them. But what the developers are starting to do goes after all used games not just game stop. I agree that the vip was worth buying the disc new. Especially with a game like bc2, I think you want to be in fairly early rather than waiting for the price of a used copy to drop. But if I wanted something like assassin's creed 2 or bioshock 2, and especially if the game doesn't have or I'm not interested in the multiplayer, I can play those anytime. By the time I get around to it, they may be 2 years old and I can get a copy for $5 on ebay.

If I have to choose between buying new with something like the vip or buying used, I'll buy new, no doubt about it. But you know what? I'll buy and play fewer games. Maybe from the developer's standpoint, they don't care since they feel they weren't getting a cut of the used market anyway, but I'm guessing that a lot of the dough paid for used games gets recirculated into new ones.

Retro
07-28-2010, 10:21 PM
Used cars would be a bad comparison, as used cars from an authorised dealer see the maker getting a cut.

No company making a product wants it to be bought used. They want you to buy from them and I see nothing wrong with that. It doesn't increase my price when buying new. It doesn't increase the cost of buying used either, unless you want that content. And like you said, for a game like BC2 you want to get in early before the people either move away from the mulitplayer or you just come in too far behind. So how this actually hurts anyone, I don't know.

ustolemygmrtag
07-29-2010, 06:33 AM
I dnever paid over $20 a game for the NES, SNES, Atari 2600, and PS1. Yes, when the game systems 1st came out, the games were rediculous. But prices cames down fast. I bought the 1st Zelda and Wal-Mart for $19.99. 2 weeks after it came out. Games were cheaper in the olden days. I do not remember a $70 to $80 dollar game. I would not have ever played any if they were.

Borlaxx
07-29-2010, 07:33 AM
I dnever paid over $20 a game for the NES, SNES, Atari 2600, and PS1. Yes, when the game systems 1st came out, the games were rediculous. But prices cames down fast. I bought the 1st Zelda and Wal-Mart for $19.99. 2 weeks after it came out. Games were cheaper in the olden days. I do not remember a $70 to $80 dollar game. I would not have ever played any if they were.
I never remember them being that expensive, either, but then again, I never really paid for my own games when I was a kid. I do remember when I started to first buy my own games (PS1) that they were $50.00.

DayliteMag
07-29-2010, 08:13 AM
I haven't been following this thread because I've been "working" from home the past two days and I really only find time to browse the forum when I'm at work. Shhhh, don't tell my boss, LOL.

I just read a smattering of the posts and I see a lot of discussion regarding pricing of new games. I almost always buy my games new and when I think about the price vs how much enjoyment I get from playing the games I find them to be dirt cheap. The comparison I always use is taking my family to a movie. There are three of us and when we go out to the movies the total cost is somewhere around $40-$50 (including teh $40 bag 'o popcorn...can you believe what the charge for snacks at a movie thearter?). For that money, we get approx one hour and forty-five minutes of entertainment and half an hour of commercials. Now, according to the MP leaderboard (kindly brought to us by Lockwood) I have been playing BC2 for over 215 hours. Assuming I paid approx $65 for BC2 that works out to just $0.30 per hour and I am not yet tired of playing it, so that cost is going to come down even further. IMO, that's good value for my entertainment buck.

imported_BigDaddyPine
07-29-2010, 08:15 AM
The comparison I always use is taking my family to a movie.
That is a neat way to put it Mag. I will need to try that on my wife when it is time to migrate to the next game. :-?

CELockwood
07-29-2010, 08:45 AM
Used cars would be a bad comparison, as used cars from an authorised dealer see the maker getting a cut.

No company making a product wants it to be bought used. They want you to buy from them and I see nothing wrong with that. It doesn't increase my price when buying new. It doesn't increase the cost of buying used either, unless you want that content. And like you said, for a game like BC2 you want to get in early before the people either move away from the mulitplayer or you just come in too far behind. So how this actually hurts anyone, I don't know.

I disagree that cars aren't a good analogy. Most used cars are not sold as certified (either private party or just not certified by the dealer). The equivalent to this action would be Ford having a networked chip that increases fuel efficiency by 20%, but only the original purchaser gets it; the used car buyer has to pay Ford if they want the improved mileage turned on. Not a perfect analogy, I know, but you get the point. The VIP pack has already been paid for; the used buyer has to pay again. The third buyer pays again. Rinse and repeat.

Who does this hurt? You can't honestly argue that this doesn't impact used games prices. It hurts the used game market directly. If I buy a game and want to sell it used, it's value is diminished if the buyer has to pay extra to the developer to get the full experience. It causes sellers to get less for their games and makes buyers less likely to buy used (or want to pay less). You can argue about whether this is "extra" content or whether this would have simply been part of the game in the absence of a GameStop type used market, so you're probably right about the impact to new game prices. Again, I understand the motivation. If it were my game, I'd want people to buy new too.

I guess there's two main things about this that really bother me.

1) The impact on the used game market. I like the idea of recycling things. We're too much of a use it and throw away society. If I'm done with a game, I like selling it, and using the proceeds to buy my next one, or buying used so someone else can do the same. Or just giving the darn thing away. This type of DLC makes those transaction less attractive and therefore less likely. O.K. Not the giving away part, but buying/selling used is less attractive.

2) This essentially means that I don't own the whole game. I'm effectively renting the DLC. This problem is going to grow and grow with digital distribution. Whether I bought the game used and then purchased the DLC or paid the premium for a new copy, there's no way for me to legally transfer ownership of the dlc to someone else. Just like a Kindle book or 360 arcade title, I really don't own this content; the experience from the user standpoint is more of a license. This annoys me, partly because of #1, partly because of the way some of these battles have been fought in the past over software 'licences' and attempts to limit the end user's rights, and finally because of the last point below.

Again, specific to bc2, the vip was worth buying new, I just don't like the overall concept, and I think we're going to see more of this until digital distribution becomes complete. Then there won't be a used game market. :(

CELockwood
07-29-2010, 08:52 AM
...Assuming I paid approx $65 for BC2 that works out to just $0.30 per hour and I am not yet tired of playing it, so that cost is going to come down even further. IMO, that's good value for my entertainment buck.

I don't disagree about the price of bc2. As I've said, the vip was worth it to me, and the game price is reasonable for the amount of enjoyment (frustration?), I've gotten and continue to get out of it. It's not quite the same as with a movie where most of what you're paying for is an experience (like going to a theme park) and some of it goes to the local theater and employees. With a game, I bought it. I won't repeat my other rantings, but my issue is with the concept of 'free to new owner only' dlc.

Retro
07-29-2010, 10:51 AM
Only renting it? You own the disc as long as you want to have it. You can have the DLC on your HDD for as long as you want it. Just like anything else you buy. What else are you looking to do with it? I have games for my PC from Steam & Direct to drive. My HDD failed and wiped everything. I simply log onto the site and get my games back for no cost. How do I not own them?

Any DLC is an "extra" add on. You don't need it. If someone buys the game used, they can still play online without VIP, they just don't get to have all the maps. Unless they know what they are doing, have a developers kit 360 and crack the disc, but that's another story.

And private sales and trades are much cheaper than a used store like GS. Your not selling your copy of a game you like 3 months after release when your still playing it. Your going to sell it most likely next year. And regardless of DLC, the game won't hold much value at that point anyway. Someone buying a game almost a year later really does not care about the online feature, as most people have moved on to another game, so what's the point.
How much would you even sell BC2 for on ebay now? $25, $30 bucks at most? How is that going to discourage someone right now when the retail price is still between $59.99 & $69.99? As you said, places like GS are too expensive for used games. But anyone buying the game privately right now and paying more than $25 or $30 deserves to get screwed. So yes, I will argue that it does not hurt the used market as the used market is not just GS. At the same time, you can not argue that the used market does not hurt the developers.

"It's not quite the same as with a movie where most of what you're paying for is an experience (like going to a theme park) and some of it goes to the local theater and employees." And with a game, some of it goes to the developer and it's employees, the truckers, the warehouse people and the retailers.

And for some others, yes the average SNES game in the early 90's was $70. Games came down in price with the PS1 and the move to CD. Cartridges were extremely expensive. Just like today some titles were cheaper but some were more. Super Star Wars was $79.99 while NHL 92 was around $49.99.

Retro
07-29-2010, 11:15 AM
Funny part is Lockwood, were both used game geeks. :-B

Wasn't this suppose to be about the new maps?

I like them. :D

sniperella
07-29-2010, 11:18 AM
Funny part is Lockwood, were both used game geeks. :-B

Wasn't this suppose to be about the new maps?

I like them. :D


I am with you Retro, we all like this game, so who cares if we are dumb enough to pay crazy prices for entertainment! It is the way the world works, and if we want to play, we have to pay!

I hate the new White Pass map, unless I am attacker, then I like it! Played with Trojan Teacher last night on White Pass, and he thought there was more potential there too. Why did they make it so easy for attacker, and pretty much impossible for defender? ;)

CELockwood
07-29-2010, 11:20 AM
Only renting it? You own the disc as long as you want to have it. You can have the DLC on your HDD for as long as you want it. Just like anything else you buy. What else are you looking to do with it? I have games for my PC from Steam & Direct to drive. My HDD failed and wiped everything. I simply log onto the site and get my games back for no cost. How do I not own them?

My renting comment refers only to the dlc, not the disc. It's not like everything else you buy. My point is that with ownership usually comes the right to transfer that ownership. You don't have that with the dlc (or most other digital items). The Steam example is a good one. Would you sell me your copy of the Steam version of Dragon Age? No? There's the difference.


Any DLC is an "extra" add on. You don't need it. If someone buys the game used, they can still play online without VIP, they just don't get to have all the maps. Unless they know what they are doing, have a developers kit 360 and crack the disc, but that's another story.

This is some of the issue. Are the 'vip' type dlc's were getting now and in the future truly 'extra' or are they the type of thing that previously would be considered a normal part of the game, repackaged as dlc to decrease used game sales. Probably has to be evaluated on a case by case basis.



And private sales and trades are much cheaper than a used store like GS. Your not selling your copy of a game you like 3 months after release when your still playing it. Your going to sell it most likely next year. And regardless of DLC, the game won't hold much value at that point anyway. Someone buying a game almost a year later really does not care about the online feature, as most people have moved on to another game, so what's the point.
How much would you even sell BC2 for on ebay now? $25, $30 bucks at most? How is that going to discourage someone right now when the retail price is still between $59.99 & $69.99? As you said, places like GS are too expensive for used games. But anyone buying the game privately right now and paying more than $25 or $30 deserves to get screwed. So yes, I will argue that it does not hurt the used market as the used market is not just GS. At the same time, you can not argue that the used market does not hurt the developers.

I think we've beat this to death, and we'll probably have to agree to disagree and move on. I find the idea that a $15 add on that you get for free if you buy new, has no impact on used prices pretty absurd, and any economist would argue differently, but hey I can't prove it. Why the VIP pack at all if not to decrease used sales? Decreased used sales (demand), along with increased new purchases available for resale (supply) should decrease used prices. I will concede that the used market hurts developers if you define 'hurt' as the idea that some of those who bought used would have bought new were used not available. But, again, that's an argument against used sales of anything which I don't find compelling. By the way, I do sell some games pretty quick. I probably bought and sold the first Assassin's Creed in less than a month.



"It's not quite the same as with a movie where most of what you're paying for is an experience (like going to a theme park) and some of it goes to the local theater and employees." And with a game, some of it goes to the developer and it's employees, the truckers, the warehouse people and the retailers.

I may not have been clear here, but the point was that you're not actually buying anything (except popcorn) when you go to the movies. You're paying for a service. It's different than buying a physical object.

Nice debate. :D

CELockwood
07-29-2010, 11:30 AM
Funny part is Lockwood, were both used game geeks. :-B

Wasn't this suppose to be about the new maps?

I like them. :D

LOL, I almost put in my last post that I couldn't remember what we were talking about. :D

I haven't played them, yet, but I'll probably be on tonight. Still trying to get all my combat excellence pins. At the rate I'm going, the price of games, used or otherwise, is not a major concern at this point. :(

Borlaxx
07-29-2010, 11:30 AM
Funny part is Lockwood, were both used game geeks. :-B

Wasn't this suppose to be about the new maps?

I like them. :D
Sorry, it is my bad. Didn't mean to start a

http://thesportshernia.typepad.com/blog/images/2008/01/03/new_york_knicks_shit_storm_1_4.jpg

:-"

Retro
07-29-2010, 11:35 AM
Definitly argree to disagree.

My point about not selling a game fast was refering to games with long replay value like BC2. I have many games that I beat inside of a week and trade them quickly. But something like BC2 or MW2 will not be traded quickly if you have an interest in the multiplayer.

I just don't see VIP having an impact right now on used sales. (full disclosure, one of my best friends own's a Microplay which is similar to GS but way better.) People are buying up BC2 used and paying $39.99 for it. As for private sales, I honestly have no idea how that could be measured.

I could actually sell you my Direct to Drive purchased games. I would just deactivate my credit card and sell you the login and password for my account and you would have all the games I've bought. People have actually done this (why I don't know, desperate for money I guess.)


Anyway, back to the maps! Good.

And Sniperella, I have not played defense on White Pass yet. Though I think it can be done. I need to spent some time with it. I played as an attacker and the first 2 set's I felt is were you need to take a stand as a defender. The warehouse can not be taken down and it can be defended well. A team with 8 defending the warehouse, 2 defending the other mcom and 2 more pushing the spawn may actually win the game.

Retro
07-29-2010, 11:36 AM
Funny part is Lockwood, were both used game geeks. :-B

Wasn't this suppose to be about the new maps?

I like them. :D
Sorry, it is my bad. Didn't mean to start a

http://thesportshernia.typepad.com/blog/images/2008/01/03/****.jpg

:-"
Look what you've done man! Chaos!!!!!!

CELockwood
07-29-2010, 11:45 AM
Funny part is Lockwood, were both used game geeks. :-B

Wasn't this suppose to be about the new maps?

I like them. :D
Sorry, it is my bad. Didn't mean to start a

http://thesportshernia.typepad.com/blog/images/2008/01/03/****.jpg

:-"
Look what you've done man! Chaos!!!!!!

I agree, it's Borlax's fault!

Borlaxx
07-29-2010, 12:26 PM
I agree, it's Borlax's fault!
^#(^




+1

Retro
07-29-2010, 12:31 PM
I agree, it's Borlax's fault!
It's these MW2 fanboys, they bring their glitches and hacks EVERYWHERE!!!!!! :o)

Borlaxx
07-29-2010, 12:44 PM
I agree, it's Borlax's fault!
It's these MW2 fanboys, they bring their glitches and hacks EVERYWHERE!!!!!! :o)
http://sarcasticgamer.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/341.jpg

REMEC87
07-29-2010, 01:07 PM
I agree, it's Borlax's fault!
It's these MW2 fanboys, they bring their glitches and hacks EVERYWHERE!!!!!! :o)
http://sarcasticgamer.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/341.jpg

I think that spot on Borlaxx. :))

DayliteMag
07-29-2010, 02:21 PM
Just played conquest on Nelson Bay. What a total blood fest! With four flags capture/defend the map feels tiny. It definitely has a run-and-gun feel to it. I mostly ran...and was gunned down! I found a couple of sweet killing spots and racked up numerous kills without moving an inch (running as a Medic). It feels more like an MW2 map than it does BC2. There are no tanks (that I could find). There is a UAV, but just like other Conquest maps no one really uses it because your are guaranteed to lose your tags if you do. The atmosphere seems quite a bit brighter than Nelson Bay normally is. Flags "A" and "D" are very close to one another (i.e. you can see the other flag from either), so the strat seems to be to take both flags then move forward and shoot across the map at "B" & "C". Meanwhile the other side is slipping thru your defences and challenging you for A & D. Just initial impressions, but overall I enjoyed it fairly well. Think I prefer the other maps (except White Pass, which I hate), but maybe I just need to get used to it a bit.

TrojanTeacher
07-29-2010, 07:55 PM
Man, that was the most off topic debate I've seen on here since...ever. Just caught up to this thread and will post my thoughts on White Pass Rush:

The map had promise, but who the hell put all the MCOM's in destructable buildings?!!!! STUPID! I like the atmosphere, but I can't enjoy the map as its usually over in 10 minutes. I did manage to win a defense round on it. The key was to attack the attackers. Their tickets have to be reduced FAST or all hope is lost.

jkodrigues
07-30-2010, 02:43 AM
i still havent played any of the new maps,i have my family over for my sun's christning so i will be on bad company vacation for a week

CELockwood
07-30-2010, 06:39 AM
Haven't played white pass rush, yet, but spent a couple of rounds on Nelson bay conquest and I second Daylite's post. It's not bad, but if you've got both teams populated, it does seem cramped and has a squad death match feel to it.

REMEC87
07-30-2010, 07:43 AM
Haven't played white pass rush, yet, but spent a couple of rounds on Nelson bay conquest and I second Daylite's post. It's not bad, but if you've got both teams populated, it does seem cramped and has a squad death match feel to it.


I am the opposite...I got a few opportunities to play white pass and is it ever hard to defend. If you lose the first set of mcoms then your finished. Suprisingly small map.

If your attacking try and get on the MG to the left of the spawn...I mowed down a dozen guys before they figured it out.

:cheers:

sniperella
07-30-2010, 08:39 AM
Played the Conquest map last night with several other MPs. I am not really that great on conquest, but I wanted to see what the new map was like. I get frustrated with conquest because I feel like you should try to protect the base/flag after you capture it, but then how do you get the other bases/flags? Anyway, it was fun, except I got kicked towards the end, then came back just in time to knife the guy that was tearing apart my squad!! That always makes it better! Maybe the next time they release new maps they will do a better job of spreading out the MCOMMs and Bases/Flags, and not putting everything inside building that you can take down easier than you can arm the MCOMMs. :-w ;)

sniperella
07-30-2010, 08:41 AM
If your attacking try and get on the MG to the left of the spawn...I mowed down a dozen guys before they figured it out.

:cheers:

I actually spawned right in front of that gun when playing one of the first times I played this map. I did a pretty decent job taking down the defenders! It was almost as if they just lined up in front of me, so I could blow them all away! :devil: ;)

ustolemygmrtag
07-31-2010, 07:46 PM
If your attacking try and get on the MG to the left of the spawn...I mowed down a dozen guys before they figured it out.

:cheers:

I actually spawned right in front of that gun when playing one of the first times I played this map. I did a pretty decent job taking down the defenders! It was almost as if they just lined up in front of me, so I could blow them all away! :devil: ;)


CElockwood and I accually were able to play this map fo rthe 1st time today. White Pass Rush. We were defending. It Was great, they never blew up the 1st Mcomm. :cheers: I went 12 and 3. Set up with Recon in the back right corner of the Wharehouse with mortars on Hardcore. Was a blast. You could see completely into thier spawn and rain death from above. :devil: Also, if they move up, you had the clear advantage with the 12 x scope. I only had 4 get past the burnt out bus the whole match. :applause: :applause: :applause: