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  1. #1
    Moderator DeadChaos's Avatar
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    Micro Transactions

    Another game/company that won't see a penny from me. Bungie no doubt pushing micro transactions with this move.

    If there’s one thing Destiny 2 players can’t stop talking about, it’s that the way you acquire Shaders has been changed for the worse.

    Shaders are one of the ways you can customise armour in Destiny. Attaching them to a piece of gear changes its colour. In Destiny 2, the system was expanded to allow mixing and matching them for different results, which is a great improvement.

    However, there’s one big problem: they’re now single-use items. In Destiny 1, acquiring a Shader meant owning it forever, and you were able to attach and remove it from gear anytime you wanted. In Destiny 2, once a Shader is attached to an item, you can’t remove it and attach it to another piece of gear.

    Apart of this massive change to how Shaders work, they’ve effectively been transformed from a rare, but permanent drop, to a somewhat common consumable.

    You don’t have to look far to see how frustrated players are with this change. There are several threads on the game’s very popular sub-Reddit – one of them even has over 36,000 upvotes.

    Players believe this was done to encourage spending real-money on Bright Engrams – loot boxes that include a large assortment of items, including Shaders (you also get Shaders as random drops in bundles of three or five).

    “People like to customise their characters. Some people (myself included) like to do so frequently, and experiment with different looks. If you’re burning through Shaders, you can’t tinker with your appearance at will,” one player explained.

    “Destiny 2 contains so many quality of life improvements but this makes no sense. The only possible reason to make them single use is to sell them via Eververse, a step too far in my opinion. Sucks having something we had being taken away,” another lamented.

    One player suggested that the new system takes the worst thing about Chroma and mixes it with Shaders. The message is clear: Shaders as consumable items was a misfire on Bungie’s part. Even if the game hands Shaders out generously, they’ll still feel precious and it may push players to only save them for the very end-game, when you have your desired gear.
    https://www.vg247.com/2017/09/07/des...-use-item-now/



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  3. #2
    Moderator JockoPablo's Avatar
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    If a company is going to push micro transactions, character customization is the least offensive as far as I'm concerned because it doesn't affect gameplay. I'd much prefer they try to get money that way than with a "pay to win" model involving better weapons or skills.

    I really don't care about shading, just like I don't care about what shirt my avatar is wearing in Prominence Poker.

    That said, I can see that this could be a slippery slope.

  4. #3
    Moderator DeadChaos's Avatar
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    Agreed but when taking something away that was there in the 1st place then to be replaced with micro transactions is crap. I do not care much for "skins" either but I do not like the way they slowly take away a fully priced base game and turn into a DLC micro transaction paradise. COD says every year "cosmetic only" and look how that works out.



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  6. #4
    Site Admin Gink's Avatar
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    I guess for me it will come down to how high-end armor works out. So far, it's looking pretty similar to D1 in that I am switching armor pieces constantly as I get new gear. This slows down as we get to higher levels, but even at the end of D1, aside from exotics, I was still switching out armor pieces as the grind produced better ones. So throwing away shaders with my armor pieces will mean I probably won't use them much, unless I find myself with piles of extra shaders, if there's vault space for collecting such things.

    Being able to have shaders apply to single pieces of armor, vs. your whole getup is interesting, but doesn't really replace being able to reuse shaders, and have shaders be a more unique item that you hold onto and keep as a token of completing a certain Raid or other challenge. I personally thought the chroma was a neat addition with Rise of Iron, and shaders + chroma would be a perfectly good system to continue with. I certainly wasn't bothered by chroma being an item you could buy, since it was also available in-game, though somewhat rare. I don't like microtransactions. But if it's just emotes and skins, that's fine with me, until they break perfectly good customization systems to try and push microtransactions.

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  8. #5
    MPV Retro's Avatar
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    "The message is clear: Shaders as consumable items was a misfire on Bungie’s part."

    Yeah, on Bungies part. Like it was Bungie who had any say in this at all.



    "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

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  10. #6
    Site Admin Gink's Avatar
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    What's especially dumb about this, is that you still only have 1 custom emote slot. Instead of pissing everyone off with an obvious microtransaction cash grab with shaders, they could have made categories of emotes for the 4 slots (dance, point, wave, sit) and sold a gazillion emotes. I don't think anyone would have been peeved about emotes being available as microtransactions again. Totally unnecessary stuff that people love to have.

    The shader thing gets worse and worse the more you read about it. If you decide to buy shaders, you can't just go buy the one you want. You have to buy 'bright engrams' and take your chances with the Cryptarch/RNGesus. Obviously they want you to keep buying them engrams to get the look you want. Now, you can't even buy them until level 20, and you get 1 bright engram each level-up after 20, so it's not the only way to get shaders. But, but, but, here's where it gets supper crappy. Reportedly, shaders in engrams come in packs of 3. But you have 4 armor pieces... So, even if you get lucky to get the shader you want, you can't apply it to your entire armor set? Better go buy some more engrams and keep trying!

    But, I guess if shaders are the biggest problem in the game folks are hollering about right now, that at least bodes well for the quality of the gameplay in general.

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  12. #7
    MPV Spike Forehand's Avatar
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    I remember a similar uproar when they introduced the micro-transactions for e-motes in the original Destiny. At the time, Bungie said that money generated went directly to fund the team delivering game enhancements. Have we heard anything similar here? If so it's more palatable in my book.

    PUBG has had a recent uproar over the crates you can get with coins earned in game. The ones with rarer loot you have to buy a key for to open, and now there is after-market Steam sales of the rarer items. There is a fucking mini-skirt that is being sold for upwards of $500 on Steam - lol. Trust me - I do enjoy putting on a nice miniskirt, but not if I have to pay $500 for it and that's before I even add the fishnet stockings.

    I was way more offended by the ridiculous model that Elder Scrolls Online went to, where you basically had to subscribe at $10/month on top of the $60 you paid for the game in order to get a horse. If you didn't have a horse, it would take for-fucking-ever to travel through the world. Subscribing also gave you an XP boost that meant you could advance more rapidly, so if all your mates had the XP boost and you didn't you would fall behind and be too squishy to be an asset on the more difficult missions. I couldn't believe that there wasn't more uproar about that. I felt like I got reamed after having to pay that money on top of the original $60 for the game.

    Bottom line for me is that I recognize microtransactions are here to stay as long as people are willing to pay for stuff to make themselves look better in-game - I'm gonna try to avoid them. However we need people to scream and yell if it keeps companies from going the next step to make people pay for performance. Bungie gonna learn a lesson cause it seems like the uproar is creeping into their metacritic user scores on the game. There is the potential here that they will lose more money because of this than they'll gain.

    As for the game itself - I played about 3 1/2 hours last night and really enjoyed it. Love the graphics improvements over D1 and I think the story is interesting. Reserving a score until I get through the campaign missions.

    Presto Bitch!!

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  14. #8
    MPV Spike Forehand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gink View Post
    But, but, but, here's where it gets supper crappy. Reportedly, shaders in engrams come in packs of 3. But you have 4 armor pieces... So, even if you get lucky to get the shader you want, you can't apply it to your entire armor set? Better go buy some more engrams and keep trying!
    Whoever came up with that should go into the evil dickhead hall of fame next to that asshole CS:GO streamer who drove kids to his own CS:GO crap gambling site. Wish I couild remember his name, but I guess it's good that I don't remember the names of dickheads.

    Presto Bitch!!

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  16. #9
    Site Admin Gink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike Forehand View Post
    I remember a similar uproar when they introduced the micro-transactions for e-motes in the original Destiny. At the time, Bungie said that money generated went directly to fund the team delivering game enhancements. Have we heard anything similar here? If so it's more palatable in my book.

    PUBG has had a recent uproar over the crates you can get with coins earned in game. The ones with rarer loot you have to buy a key for to open, and now there is after-market Steam sales of the rarer items. There is a fucking mini-skirt that is being sold for upwards of $500 on Steam - lol. Trust me - I do enjoy putting on a nice miniskirt, but not if I have to pay $500 for it and that's before I even add the fishnet stockings.

    I was way more offended by the ridiculous model that Elder Scrolls Online went to, where you basically had to subscribe at $10/month on top of the $60 you paid for the game in order to get a horse. If you didn't have a horse, it would take for-fucking-ever to travel through the world. Subscribing also gave you an XP boost that meant you could advance more rapidly, so if all your mates had the XP boost and you didn't you would fall behind and be too squishy to be an asset on the more difficult missions. I couldn't believe that there wasn't more uproar about that. I felt like I got reamed after having to pay that money on top of the original $60 for the game.

    Bottom line for me is that I recognize microtransactions are here to stay as long as people are willing to pay for stuff to make themselves look better in-game - I'm gonna try to avoid them. However we need people to scream and yell if it keeps companies from going the next step to make people pay for performance. Bungie gonna learn a lesson cause it seems like the uproar is creeping into their metacritic user scores on the game. There is the potential here that they will lose more money because of this than they'll gain.

    As for the game itself - I played about 3 1/2 hours last night and really enjoyed it. Love the graphics improvements over D1 and I think the story is interesting. Reserving a score until I get through the campaign missions.
    I haven't heard any response from Bungie so far, defending the decision, claiming the money goes anywhere specific, or otherwise. Fortunately, if D1 proved anything, it was their willingness to completely change overhaul mechanics from patch to patch. So it's quite possible this will be somehow made more palatable in response to the uproar.

    There seem to also be 'mods' you can get from the microtransaction engrams, not sure of the whole variety, but there are definitely some that increase light power level of weapons/armor, and other stats, which seems to be pressing close to the fine line of 'pay to win', but haven't heard much outcry about those so far.

    I still can't figure out why so many people are playing ESO to this day. I had fun with it for a while, but between the subscription/'crown store' stuff, and the hinky quest dynamics where you can have all sorts of randoms running in and jumping into fights against quest bosses, etc, or quest bosses you killed respawning while you're still looting the room, it just didn't manage to hook me for long. I realized what a grind it was going to be if I didn't pay more money, and that pretty much killed it for me. Jumped back in not long ago after getting a second console, and I swear the wife and I will play damn near anything that offers us co-op quests, and we still got tired of it in a few days. (Dying Light, however, is only being put down in favor of D2, awesome co-op zombie killing).

    We've barely gotten through the solo missions and are about to start the first "adventure" in the EDZ, some of the slight changes to mechanics, markers, and controls have been confusing, but so far it's the right amount of challenging and has retained the shoot 'em up goodness. So all-in-all I'm expecting it'll be a great game, with or without shader madness.

  17. #10
    Moderator DeadChaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike Forehand View Post
    Whoever came up with that should go into the evil dickhead hall of fame next to that asshole CS:GO streamer who drove kids to his own CS:GO crap gambling site. Wish I couild remember his name, but I guess it's good that I don't remember the names of dickheads.
    It was Tmartn and guess what, the criminal is still allowed to upload videos to YouTube with over 2 million subscribers. That is how f*&%* society is today.



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